/townhall/ - Townhall

South Korea and Japan responded to a possible Trump victory by immediately trying to thaw relations with China, as during the last Trump presidency, he targeted trade with SK and Japan, and the East Asian countries do not see Trump as a reliable partner.

It is likely the Trump presidency will not lead to a solidification of a China, Russia, Iran, North Korea bloc, which, one must note, does not actually even exist.

One expects a substantially weakened American hegemony in the Far East, and a formalization of the Russo-Indian relationship as Trump is very likely to impose tariffs on Indian trade, amongst other things. India has been thawing relations with China as well, which is pretty unusual, in anticipation of this possibility.

In the near term, a stronger short-term economy: a slash and burn strategy towards economic growth. In the longer term, trade isolationism will cause trade partners to pivot towards China as a more reliable trading partner, and will cause European allies to substantially bolster their own militaries as a counter to Russia, while increasingly detaching from the US sphere of influence in favor of building their own sphere.

Domestically, it is not only possible, but likely, that Trump will capture the center-right neoliberals, and successfully unite them with his own bloc against the left. This will not likely have anything to do with foreign policy.

>>14764
This is a fun anonymous name! Very fitting!

>>14757
It's hard to say. I'm inclined to say no, by sole virtue of the level of vitriol.
But maybe as time goes on, things'll change.

It's also of course a bit of an issue that Trump is not a warhawk, when it comes to what you're saying.
He's not willing to create an enemy to unify people, in that way. Certainly not out of a foreign power.
He wants to avoid wars.

>>14764
>>14765
It's hard for me to accept that American conservatives are just such morally bad people that they sincerely don't care if hundreds of thousands of innocent people, including many, many children, get exterminated by China or other dictatorships in the future across the world.

I want to assume the best of people. And not think that the Trump voters have a pathological lack of empathy.

At the same time, Trump voters are now saying that Hitler, Stalin, and Mao all weren't so bad and WWII wasn't so bad. So, well, I don't know.

It's a big whiplash for me since as a kid I took in the sense that communism was an evil thing and that communist dictatorships were basically the worst governments in the history of the Earth, so the CCP and other groups getting the love that they currently do is hard for me to swallow.

>>14806
Trump voters are saying Stalin and Mao, two extreme communists, weren't that bad? Are you serious?

>>14806
>>14822

Where?

>>14822
Weird. I normally hear that from the left.

>>14823
That's what I'm wondering!

>>14833
Right???

>>14806
i am uncertain what you mean by hundreds of thousands of innocent people getting exterminated by China or other dictatorships... i mean, objectively, the United States military has probably killed over a thousand times the number of children in the past twenty years than the Chinese government has.

if we're talking about the Great Leap Forward... i mean, it's been almost 70 years. China was poorer than Sub-Saharan Africa at the time. It is a very different world. Even then, i do not... understand the relevance, respectfully, to either my post... or the OP question.

Concerning Trump voters, i think what his voters expect is a different beast entirely from Trump's stated policies, particularly when it comes to foreign policy, which is consistently considered by Trump's voter base to be amongst the least important of issues.

i think it is highly likely that the center-right [using the global sense of right and left here] neoliberals, who have been pulling right throughout the campaign, and doubly so post-election, will find more common ground with the Trump base than they do with the left.

i do not think this will have anything at all to do with China, Iran, North Korea, or Russia.  

>>14764
> and will cause European allies to substantially bolster their own militaries as a counter to Russia, while increasingly detaching from the US sphere of influence in favor of building their own sphere.
Europe is cooked really. With US backing, it is easier to prop up  NATO as a scary enemy.
Once US backs out of NATO or worse, US decides to side with Russia, there's not much Europe can do.

And European far right at the top, it's playing Rocco's basilisk, where in the end, gargling Putin's penis is considered far more beneficial than standing up or a free Europe.

>>14841

literally going for this classic excuse

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes

>>14806
>>14822

>I want to assume the best of people. And not think that the Trump voters have a pathological lack of empathy.

I think they have a pathological lack of intellectual humility. For decades, whatever facts reveal how bad Trump is are disregarded or dismissed as "fake news". This is further reinforced by the insulated and isolated information ecosystems they tend to occupy almost exclusively.

>At the same time, Trump voters are now saying that Hitler, Stalin, and Mao all weren't so bad and WWII wasn't so bad. So, well, I don't know.
>Trump voters are saying Stalin and Mao, two extreme communists, weren't that bad? Are you serious?

It's never really been about logical coherence, reactionaries rarely are. It's about fear and adjusting one's beliefs to justify authoritarianism they see as a protection against their fears.

>>14843
A consequence of consistently lying to people is that they will inevitably stop believing you.
As a kid, many of us were told the tale of "The Boy Who Cried Wolf"; It is a lesson, tragically, very few seem to've taken to heart.

>It's never really been about logical coherence
I really don't think it wise to critique other's "logical coherence", when embracing such an obvious falsehood as "trump supporters think communist dictators did nothing wrong".

If you applied the most minor amount of logic, you'd find quickly such a notion is well beyond even the most absurd of hyperbole.

*ahem*

https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/CHINA.CHAP1.HTM

"No other people in this century except Soviet citizens have suffered so much mass killing in cold blood as have the Chinese. They were murdered by rebels conniving with their own Empress, and then with the defeat in war of the dynasty, by soldiers and citizens of many other lands. They were killed by mini-despots--warlords--who ruled one part of China or another. They were slaughtered because they happened to live where Nationalist, warlords, communists, or foreign troops fought each other. They were executed because they had the wrong beliefs or attitudes in the wrong place at the wrong time. They were shot because they criticized or opposed their rulers. They were butchered because they resisted rape, were raped, or tried to prevent rape. They were wiped out because they had food or wealth that soldiers or officials wanted. They were assassinated because they were leaders, a threat, or potential antagonists. They were blotted out in the process of building a new society. And they died simply because they were in the way."

>>14843
For someone who hates it when people group up others, you sure like to group up trump supporters

Trump's reelection has made me get back into politics somewhat. I've even been browsing /pol/ again just to keep up with world events and what not. Any other veterans of the meme war returning to duty?

I wrote a long reply, but then it got deleted.

Basically, Bernie or Trump - same difference. There is a popular movement going on. I think Bernie would have done a better job, though (and protected those with disabilities, etc.), which may be at risk under Trump.